The World Through Zen Eyes Podcast

Ep. 29 - Dead Buddhas

• MyongAhn Sunim & Dr. Ruben Lambert • Episode 29

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Missed us? We’re back with fresh momentum, an international precept ceremony under our belt, and a major access upgrade: live Zoom captions so students can follow teachings in their own language. We share how opening our doors wider reshapes practice—removing excuses, tightening community bonds, and letting curiosity turn into daily discipline no matter where you live.

A listener’s question sparks the heart of the conversation: Are there living Buddhas, and would we know them? What makes a bodhisattva different from the rest of us who have Buddha nature? We unpack the meanings of Buddha (original nature and the historical Shakyamuni), the role of vows in Mahayana, and why waiting for enlightenment before helping others is a trap. Instead, we explore how to embody compassion and right conduct now, so the spirit of the bodhisattvas shows up in ordinary life—emails, families, and crowded schedules included.

We also address a subtle danger: turning profound teachings into slogans. Calling Buddha “living” risks reducing the unborn to the realm of coming and going. Misreading emptiness as a void can feed complacency or nihilism, and spiritual ego loves to hide behind big words. Our antidote is simple and demanding: share only what you truly know, lift only what you can carry, and ask for help when the load is heavy. If each person offers a spoonful, the eleventh person eats. Practice becomes portable—like a tent you fold and move to higher ground as your understanding matures.

Join us for a grounded, practical, and compassionate exploration of Buddha nature, bodhisattva vows, and the everyday moves that keep the path alive. If this resonates, subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with a friend who could use a clear, kind nudge toward practice today.

Support the show

Dr. Ruben Lambert can be found at wisdomspring.com

Ven. MyongAhn Sunim can be found at soshimsa.org

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome back. Really back back to another episode of the world through the nice podcast. I'm Young Ansunim here with Dr. Ruben Lambert. And we've been MIA, as they say, on the account of my uh being out of the country, and we are just getting back into it. So welcome back to those of you who are um patiently or impatiently waiting for the next podcast to roll out. It's uh glad to be back. Uh, I was uh during my away time. Well, when we when I came back, one of the first uh ceremonies and celebrations that we did was precept ceremony for the people taking precepts from within our Sangha, the five uh Buddhist precepts, and it was actually our first international precept ceremony as well via Zoom. That's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01:

It is it is uh social size now international across the big pond.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right. And and so the plans are to uh establish something there, so we're we're in a in a works of that uh in terms of the logistics of it, translations of uh bylaws and things of that nature has to be translated and properly uh notarized so that we could start moving on uh creating a branch in Poland. Um so that is an exciting news. Uh, on account of that, also all of our programs are now the Zoom programs, that is, are now available. Uh they could be uh viewed, the the captions can be viewed in any language in the world. So Zoom apparently had that feature, so we've upgraded our Zoom uh level of uh uh the membership or whatever you call it, sure.

SPEAKER_01:

And so now we have uh closed captions that that provide uh immediate translation, granted it's which let me tell our listeners uh since we have this wonderful new feature, now we can uh send messages across the whole planet. And if someone is interested in meditation or learning more about the Zen Buddhist philosophy, you can email us and they can get a link to either our Monday Intro to Zen class or the Sunday traditional Buddhist chanting service followed by a Dharma teaching. So if anyone out there wants to expand their knowledge and delve deeper into the practices, and they're not in New Jersey or near us, you can certainly get a Zoom link in whatever language it is that you speak and understand.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, it's it's that's great, it's really cool. Yeah, I had someone was asking about they have a family member in Peru, so uh, like I said, Poland. And we do have listeners uh to this podcast also uh in a few other countries. Yeah, it's a little bit different with the podcast than the other programs, but uh we're we're coming around to being uh broader and broader as the world is, as the in a sense the borders uh melt away and we can reach farther and farther. So uh we did receive uh a few fan mail messages. Suggesting topics, right? Suggesting topics and and um you know the podcasts have been missed. Although uh I did see that that uh the listening continues, so I'm glad to see. There is so much information in these podcasts. We we throw out so many things that they um they could certainly be listened to time and time and time again. And I know uh some of our listeners do exactly that. They revisit the podcast because it's uh whether it's to remember what was said or or to simply try and memorize certain if if there's organized like the five roots, for example.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think it would be really cool if our listeners do listen to the back podcast because that is in line with the uh Zen teachings of how to actually learn and apply teaching. But what would be even better is when our listeners listen to a back podcast and then they ask us a question based off of that and say, Hey Sunim, hey Dr. Lambert, can you expand on this topic about karma? Because I heard you say this and this, right? And that shows us that you're really delving into the topic and actually trying to dig deeper.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I think we've had one of those requests. Uh, unfortunately, it was uh certain things just don't lend themselves well to a broad kind of podcast platform, and that was unfortunately one of those. Uh so some things require a little bit more customization to what the person needs. Sure. So uh and and this is also a good place perhaps to throw in a bit of a disclaimer, if you will, or or a or a reminder that uh what we talk about in these podcasts are broad topics. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Um it's sort of like a one-on-one, a survey course.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. But they're they the sometimes some of these topics, some of these points need refinement when it comes to an individual person and to match and and to make it uh work for them. So uh for those of you who are listening, please do remember that.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, and that's why we have another plug coming. Tea with the habit. So you have an individual question, or if you want to see how a teaching can be applied specifically to your life, you can definitely schedule it. Take a look at your the day you were born, the hour you were born, see how you look in person in three-dimensional form, and you're free to uh have an exchange. Yeah, question and answer exchange. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

Um yeah. So well, this one is uh this is a uh what we got.

SPEAKER_01:

This is I feel like back in the day, if we were doing this podcast, maybe in the 80s, we can have like a little mailbox here and we can say, hey, let's let's see what's in the box. Let's see what can the mailbox. We can open it up, yeah, and pull an actual envelope out. But now we have the uh the virtual form virtual.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

See what the mailman brought in.

SPEAKER_02:

So this is a this is a yes, this is a a a combo of questions and and um as you know, we don't uh I don't want to say prepare. I don't want to day we prepare for life. We don't prepare for these podcasts in in in sort of ways where we go and research things. It it's things that it really is kind of live meandering to the twists and turns of our brains and and experience and and thoughts and understandings. Um so well uh jab jabba jabba jabba. Are there any living Buddhas? Would we know if there were? Are the bodhisattvas Buddhas in training? What makes them different from the rest of us with the Buddha nature? Is it because they did reach enlightenment and chose to stay and help others? Are we all destined to be bodhisattvas on the way to enlightenment? Maybe a quick talk about it on your neck on your next podcast. There are several ways to approach this this these questions and uh there's the academic approach, there's the anyway, so there's the various ways to look at it um in varying depths or from varying perspectives, etc. So are there any living Buddhas? Would we know if they were? Are the Bodhisattvas Buddhas in training, quote unquote? What makes them different from the rest of us with the Buddha nature? Is it because they did reach enlightenment and chose to stay and help others? Are we all destined to be a bodhisattvas on a way to enlightenment? Um how about you go? How about you go? Well, I'll go a little academic from the so maybe I'll take a like a really zen approach to this. You can just chop it all up and the the Zen master's uh perspective.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's say I'll build you a sand castle and you can come with your wind and just blow it away and be like, uh okay. Well, let's let's just start with Buddha. Buddha in Korean Zen is the term is named as bull, right? And so when we say Buddha, according to my understanding, it is referring to your general Buddha nature. And then when you say Sokamuni Buddha, you're speaking specifically to that individual who has realized Buddha. So Sokamuni Bull would be in reference to the historical Buddha that we often talk about and hear about in the sutras. But after Sokamuni Buddha's enlightenment, one of the things that he taught all beings is that all sentient beings, all Junseng, have this nature. So, in essence, I believe that if you're in you want to know is Buddha here and now, of course, the Buddha's in the here and now, because it is the essence of all living things. And we're all trying to get in touch with that, in contact with that, except it's a uh it's like a diamond in the rough. You can look at a diamond in the rough within the stone of a mountain or the the rock, and you don't see it, yet it's there. Or another bang pion or metaphor is the white rapid, white rabbit and the snow peak mountain. You look from a distance and you say, Oh, there's a rabbit over there. And another person looks and says, Where? I don't see it. Right. So in essence, you have to go there and and see it and experience it for yourself, then you know. Then bodhisattva, the bodhisattva question. My understanding of the bodhisattva is a many of them reach enlightenment, bol sar, bol referring to bodhi or the Buddha mind, sal being so a being that reaches enlightenment and then forgoes entering nirvana in order to let's say execute or perform the vows in which they take. And every bodhisattva has taken up a variety of different vows. So yes, in essence, the bodhisattva has reached enlightenment, but then where I have a question and and myself and where I think about is I I believe we can embody a bodhisattva and take on those characteristics on the path to enlightenment. So we don't have to, in essence, like wait for enlightenment in order to put those teachings that they exemplify into practice in our daily lives. And if you mirror back to the world that you are, let's say, engaging in full-on compassion, then I can say the spirit of Kwantan Bosal is present there. Or if you are engaging in good conduct, proper actions, then we can say Bohyon Bosal is there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so yeah, it's a it's valid uh perspective, the the spirit, if you will, and not spirit as in the spirit, the soul perhaps, but the spirit of what the bodhisattvas stand for is what you're saying. Yeah, we we can symbol. Yeah, we want to be that. Actually, that's that that's a big point to uh remember in our practice. Uh you know, there's petitioning of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas through prayer and things. Um But we also have to remember, like you said, that we have certain echo of those things within us, and that we we are to emulate that which they exemplify. Because there is a danger in this sort of externalization and and and keeping that separation between uh, let's say the bodhisattva and myself and the Buddha and myself. Um it keeps one and the other apart, and it then always, in a sense, uh maintains a hierarchy, not only well, hierarchy. I mean, we are always to respect and and honor the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, of course, but it's it almost maintains like a slave and master relationship, right? That we are always subjugating ourselves to that uh great power of, let's say, uh a bodhisattva or a Buddha, um always begging, you know, always petitioning, always begging, always requesting. And and there's a danger in forgetting that we are to try and be one ourselves, like you said, we want to emulate the whatever principles, whatever qualities, uh we want to try and and live according to the vows that some the you know the said Buddha or Bodhisattva have taken, and in that way, in a sense uh we are we become closer to we close that that gap that's created, and that gap uh has a has a root in in our pers perspective of separateness of things.

SPEAKER_01:

That can be a rabbit hole, but yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

People misunderstand that point off the forgetfulness of the of the of the interrelationship, the correlate the the connections and the the the relationship of one thing and anything in the world and the any other thing in the world, and um by trying to do the things that the masters did, do the things that the Buddhas do, do the things that the Bodhisattvas do. Of course, we do our best and and and to the best of our capacities and capabilities and abilities and and whatever level of our spiritual development and and whether Shintonglyok or or you know the sort of powers or no powers, but none of that should stop us from trying to do uh what they do, what they do, what they did.

SPEAKER_01:

I think uh just real fast, when you're describing it in this manner, I had this idea of a game we used to play when we were kids that was called King of the Hill, where you had a little hill, and then each person tried to get to the top and stay at the top, and anyone that tried to come up, you pushed them off. Buddhism bodhisattvas, in essence, you can say due to their accomplishments, let's just say they're at the top of the hill, peak of the mountain, but they're not playing King of the Hill. When you're coming up, they don't kick you to stay down, they want you up there to be there. Sure. And it reminds me too of a poem that you created, which is on your YouTube channel, where it talked about the Buddha, and then you had the picture of our Sokamuni Buddha that we have on the altar. And I I'm paraphrasing here, I think for 3,000 years you've sat there and not said nothing, and then he answers and he says, Why have I uh yeah, and the question is why have you been sitting there?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And what does he say? I'm saving a seat for you.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm saving a seat for you. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And that really embodies, I think, the point that you're trying to make here.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So it's interesting because that is um. And then the other element, uh, like you said, uh in in terms of the meanings of the names, right? Uh you know, there's a sutra where where where Buddha asks, the Buddha, so Kamuni Buddha that is, is asked, uh, are you a god?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Are you this? Are you are you a uh you know, are you a Brahman? Are you a spirit? Are you this and this and this kind of list that is being asked? And uh the Buddha just simply says, I am simply awake. And um so there is that also you could think a beautiful response.

SPEAKER_01:

Cutting through the ego of humankind, because humans want to know. Right, you need to want to tell me what is it. What how do I deal with it? What box do I put it into? What do I what box do I put into? Give them the satisfaction. Yes. Oh my god, I must have left them.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and it's and it's it is, it's if you know, we're after freedom. And and the freedom is also freedom from boxing things according to some rigid, fixed algorithm that we have in our brains based on our experience, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_01:

And so like that beautiful meme picture you sent me, the uh philosophers inside of a was it a web? The philosophers live inside of a web of words. I don't remember. Yeah. It was uh, I think inside it said philosophers, and inside of it it was like uh either a box or let's say a web, and they're imprisoned, and then it pointed to it and said, These are words, they live within that. That becomes a prison in which they can find themselves too.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Just wanting to yeah, philosopher and and the Buddha also uh warns against sort of philosophizing too much, and and the idea is uh we could be sitting talking about doing for eons and never having done. And this is this is kind of largely the the point. Um yeah, so so uh we have that uh now to sort of build on that uh explanation or or or thoughts on on this. Uh are there any living buddhas? Do we know if uh would we know if there were? Are the bodhisattvas Buddhas in training? What makes them different from the rest of us? So I I you've touched on all of these. The other elements to consider and to add to this is uh the person for example Sokamuni Buddha, the historical Buddha, a prince born grown old, grown sick, and and died. Just like our own who understood first hand and directly uh his own nature, and then the great declaration, we all have it. It's it it too is a danger areas because what we sometimes get is we all have it, and uh what I call sort of bumper sticker uh spirituality. We're all Buddhas, we're all Bodhisattvas, and and um the problem with uh declarations like this sometimes is that they are never revisited, never re-inspected, never thought further about, and so we just live on a kind of bumper sticker um vinyl sort of face, uh just superficial level of of what is being said. And then the other thing is uh that sometimes what that leads to is uh some sort of complacency. Oh, we're all Buddhists. Therefore, you know, it it there's a creaky door that opens somewhere back there that makes uh that allows for some complacency, some danger.

SPEAKER_01:

Nothing needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Or we all have the same level of understanding.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And so and so from that also grows uh a common misunderstanding of equality.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, equality being sameness.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. You know, and sort of this kind of and and that's that's uh potentially another uh episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well I think like a a college student can become a medical doctor, but a college student is not a medical doctor.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

So it has to be clearly differentiated. Certainly can. But they have not yet. Not just yet. The knowledge is not refined.

SPEAKER_02:

So and so we have that, and then we have the so if there's a person that embodies a principle. They've sort of eaten the principle, right? Uh you've eaten uh an apple, and and you've eaten an apple, and now the body the apple is part of you, sort of absorbed the nutrients and it's absorbed into you, right? But in order to do that, there has to be an apple existing outside of you prior to your eating and absorbing it. And so in in that sense, the Buddha nature or the Buddhahood, um sort of there's uh we could think of it as sort of external, existing Buddhahood, the Buddha nature, and then our uh its presence within us, the way that sort of there's air outside of me, and I keep on breathing, and I have some of that air that is outside in me, and and so I utilize it, that kind of uh internal, external, the cosmic Buddha, if you will, and the individual Buddha and that sort of thing. Now for the more I'm not gonna categorize it for another perspective, let's call it that. So we have the the all the things we've talked about. So there's the the person, the person accomplishing the realization of self-nature, and and that uh then gets them a title, if you will, of a Buddha or Bodhisattva. Um the the idea, however, uh so the questions were are there any living Buddhas? Would we know if they were? Are the Bodhisattvas Buddhas in training? Uh what makes them different from the rest of us with the Buddha nature knowledge and the realization and the knowing uh experience. But is it because that they reach enlightenment uh and they chose to stay to help others? And so, like we said, there's a you live according to the principles and help others. This is a very Mahayana Tesamburgyo principle, also. It's it's not like, well, when I reach enlightenment, then I will help, uh, you know. Um when I have ten billion dollars, then I will make a donation. Um when I have a warehouse of food, then I will give a morsel. And and so the the the the when I could potentially never come, not in this lifetime, at least. And and uh so then what are we to do? Just uh self fishly go about our business under the pretext and excuse that I might that I must accrue some enormous amount, you know. And and that's not the Tessung Burgo, the Mahayana principle. The Mahayana principle is what I know, what I can, I will do, what I know, I will share, what my understanding is, and and um this is also the reason, one of the reasons why the keeping an eye on the ego is so important, because there is a requirement in a sense of some amount of self-knowledge and self-understanding to say, I know this much. And from that much, as much as I know, I can help. But ego might want to say, well, let's say I know one to five, but I'm gonna talk about seven, eight, nine, and ten because I want to sound uh impressive or smart or or um whatever it may be. And so we have to have a level of self understanding to say this is how much I know, and so I can share this much, and and be very careful of not crossing over the boundaries of um embellishing self, etc. etc. And this is true with any help. If I can pick up 20 pounds, then that's my power of picking up 20 pounds. And if you dropped a 50-pound something, um I can't directly help because I'll blow my back out, and then there'll be two people with the problem. Uh of course it we have wisdom, so that doesn't mean don't do anything, maybe get somebody else, and collectively three people could pick it up. And so that kind of idea, the this is this idea is also present, and uh, you know, we have a saying uh uh that if there are ten people sitting around the table and each person would were to take a spoonful of their food that could feed an 11th person, right? And that's the idea. So knowing what it doesn't have to be that we wait for some grand realization or that we wait for being, you know, a millionaire or what have you.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's the beauty of Mahayana Zen. Don't wait for X, Y, and Z in order to engage in the principles that you're learning. Apply these things in your day-to-day life. I mean, we have Binjag who literally donated a little clipping of her hair.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, shaved her hair.

SPEAKER_01:

Shaved her hair and donated that, and that was considered great bullshit, great charity.

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

So you don't have to wait. Oftentimes, if you wait for the what if, the boat that boat sails and you missed it. That's too late.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right. And so I guess we'll we'll we'll get to uh a thing that is uh a little bit something else. Are there any living buddhas? Would we know if there were? Are the bodhisattvas buddhas in training? So these are the pro these are the problems. Are there any living buddhas? Would we know if they were? Are the bodhisattvas buddhas in training? Those are the keywords that that are that are from another perspective, whatever perspective, however you want to categorize it, are problematic. Are there any living Buddhas? A voice about a thing. The term Buddha is as all terms, uh, when it comes to the to real is very limiting. And so a voice asks, Are there any living Buddhas? In that question, the voice has the idea of what a Buddha is, conjured up entirely out of the bits and pieces cobbled together from the bits and pieces of that voice's experience, personal experience. It is false to think that two people, when we say the word Buddha, that two people could nod their heads and say, Ah, we both know what we're talking about. That's not it. Because they all have their own individual experiences, uh, understanding, knowledge, uh, idiosyncrasies, whatever. And so that's the problem right there. The the are there any living buddhas? And the problem with that question is that it asks about a thing according and based on that person asking that voices understanding, which is not an understanding of what a Buddha is, unless it is a Buddha asking a question. And it's all of the clues are in that short statement. Are there any living Buddhas, right? Yes, are there any living Buddhas? In order for there to be a living Buddha, there would have to be a dead Buddha. In order for there to be a living Buddha, the living Buddha would have to be have been born. That is to say, then Buddha is dependent on life and death. That is to say, Buddha is born and dies. That is to say, and if are there any this this is the same with uh the idea of training and differences. Are there any buddhas? Uh are there any uh are there any living buddhas? Would we know if they were? Are the Buddhas and Buddhisathas in training? So all of these uh words are trip-up words that uh gave further and further away from that that give away the fact that this is not uh well then this is this cannot be answered, frankly, in in in the way I mean we've answered from various perspectives, but the more sort of Zenmaster way, if you will, is uh the the whole structure, the whole sentence, the whole wording uh betrays uh the position.

SPEAKER_01:

You defile Buddha by saying by calling it living. Yeah, if it is beyond birth and death, not subject to as Sokomuni Buddha taught us, Sengno Bionsa, right? Birth, old age, sickness, and death, we cannot say it is living, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And this is and this is automatically if you're born, then you must die.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's the four noble truths. If you're born, you you're going to grow sick, you're going to grow old, and you're going to die. And uh what is born, what grows sick, what grows old and what dies is not Buddha. But that neither comes nor goes. And so this is true with our enlightenment. This is why we say do not wait or do not seek enlightenment. If you are to wait for it, it means it isn't here yet. If you are to seek it, it means you haven't you haven't got it now. Uh if it were something we could get and lose, if it is something that is born and dies, it must therefore, by definition, belong to the realm of impermanence. And it's not a transcendent thing. It's not a thing beyond. It's locked into a realm of, like you said, we could say that's a defilement, because then uh the same principles apply to a shoe. A shoe comes and goes, a shoe is born or made and dies and destroyed and deteriorates, etc. etc. And uh the Buddha doesn't live. The Buddha doesn't live, it doesn't die, it isn't born, it doesn't come and go, it doesn't grow small or large, it doesn't uh know or unknow.

SPEAKER_01:

Hence why there's great peace and joy in that enlightenment. Because as Banyashimgyon tells us, the Heart Sutra, uhongeo ilchegoek. Kwanzaja Bosa looked at the five heaps, the five heaps, things that come into being, look beyond that and saw that they were empty, and therefore all suffering was erased. And then further down in the sutra, the bodhisattvas practice muisa, no fear. They're not afraid of death because they have realized Buddha.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And their impermanent part is just one part within the whole that embraces and encompasses all of that. Therefore, they're not subject to, nor they're not sucked into that black hole of my body is decaying, my body has come to an end, therefore, the I, the I guess this term is used by some people out there, but the small I, we could say, the impermanent I, the ego I, it is not really my chamna, it is not the real me. Right. So they have no fear when they're at death's door, because they have transcended, like you said.

SPEAKER_02:

Which is very interesting because what I what I you're you're right in what you're saying, uh, and I um just bells and alarms are going off in my head because uh you know it's it's sort of in a sense my job and my function to warn people of of things uh of trappings and and uh trappings of the spiritual path are uh real and and and the sort of spiritual ego is the worst kind, and uh but that's the thing, right? So there is oftentimes, let me just say there is sometimes uh broad strokes, but you know, what do we mean often and what do we mean sometimes? But there are cases where uh these uh declarations that are true are in fact problematic uh because they're plucked out of a context and they stand alone. So this idea of like, oh, you know, it's uh uh everything's nothing, everything's you know, nothing. I'm the the me is uh you know, it's a it's an extremist point of view, and then it negates and almost as if it were to absolve us of uh doing a work, right? Uh sometimes it's a it's a sort of uh extremist point that um one can lose responsibility on account of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a psychological trapping of uh the Heart Sutra misinterpretations, and this is true with the Kum Gang Young with the Diamond Sutra as well. That's those are big trappings. Those are big trappings of well, you know, it's all nothing, so it's whatever. Uh or or or if it's all nothing, then you know, the kind of uh hollowed out emptiness of existence, uh you know, it could very well be a terrible concoction leading to sort of depressive uh thinking and and the sort of uh dwelling on impermanence, and if and you know, if that's not if the if that which is isn't real, then why anything? Why go to work? Why go to school? Why do anything? If it's all just you know void black hole, gaping, just vacuuming everything into its sort of non-existent thing. And the Buddha warns about this, and and and it is a uh interestingly from what I have seen, this very, or at least the ideas surrounding these principles are the ones that are that are uh liked by a Western uh intellectual thinking, uh, because they you know it parallels and correlates to uh uh quantum physics and and uh you know the sort of scientific uh discoveries that we're making and and it sort of appeals to the intellect and and that kind of uh philosophic philosophical kind of wanderings. Um and and and it's it's the you know I think the I don't know if it was the Buddha or one of the masters said that if one grows attached or or or it solidifies within their mind the idea of what void or emptiness, uh sunyata or gong is, even the Buddhas can help him.

SPEAKER_01:

Pretty much screwed there, folks.

SPEAKER_02:

And and this is and this is you know uh what comes to mind is when I first started learning the Tongong exercises, I would uh I would learn an exercise in the morning, I would practice it to sort of solidify and get the muscle memory throughout the day, um, and then I would teach the last or the few last exercises in the evening. And I uh got myself sick on the account of that, the overdoing of what is good.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And uh but what it what it does say is it it it's a sort of, if you will, a proof of the potency of it, you know, and and there are this is this is the danger of anything that is potent. Potency makes available overdose, and overdose is poison. You know, it's the it's the quantity of the thing. And so uh this is true with with philosophical principles and thoughts and spiritual ideas and things like that as well. And I think it's frequently missed uh or or or people simply don't think about it because they think, well, these are good things. The philosophy is good, the the spiritual practices are good, they're intended to better myself and better the world and my circumstances and those around me. So it's good. And if we just lock onto that one good thing, there's a danger in there, and that danger becomes a sort of uh it's a blind spot, and it becomes and can very well become problematic. And this is why we need sort of guides and and and um people, uh you know, the friend on the path, uh, or guides and and teachers and and who have, you know, as they would say, the little dust in their eyes kind of thing. Um because yeah, there are trappings and and and if we if they're not expected, as they frequently are not expected, then because it's good stuff. And uh yeah, good stuff can kill you too. Absolutely. So uh it is uh important to understand that we do exist here in this world of duality and where there is light, there is shadow. And if that right and the brightness of the philosophies and your spiritualities and your practices and your religious uh points of view and whatever religion there may be, there's brightness and light in them, but because this is the world we live in, there's also the shadow side. And to understand that means to uh navigate the journey that we're on in in a surf safer way without kind of falling into uh they really are terrible because they're not your typical uh bad quote unquote things that that we that we kind of societal bad. Like it it we know obviously, oh this is not good and that is not good, but we never sort of uh or frequently we never see the the um the the shadow side of a thing that is gorgeous and beautiful and and and positive, but positive exists because negative exists, so none of these things are devoid of that. None of these things accept Buddha, and this is the Buddha that I said that not the one that's coming and going, not the the changeable, the the not that which exists within that duality principle. Something that is beyond all of that, it is not subject to these trappings. And to call it a name and to say it or whatever you want to call it is already a danger to solidify it, to name it. Because again, we're naming the unnamed, we're solidifying that which isn't solid. Uh, it isn't solid because if we're solid, then that which is solid has another state automatically assigned to it. Um, the coming, the going, the growing, the the shrinking, the birthing, the dying, all those things. So are there any buddhas living in this world and what we know? And are the bodhisattvas this and that and this and that? I think today's episode laid out various uh places you set up your tent. Not your not your don't build your house on any of it. Uh set up your tent and and expect to, if you are a genuine practitioner, expect to have to fold up your tent every so frequently, and if I have anything to do with it more frequently than than you perhaps would want, and move to uh sort of a higher ground, another place, uh, because this is how we grow. And and and that's a good thing, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like if you're moving your tent, that means you're making progress.

SPEAKER_02:

That's the way to go, right? No growing roots here. Not if I have anything to say about it, said the abbot. Well, I I think this is our time. We we didn't do the timer, we're really rusty and out of practice.

SPEAKER_01:

Um bad firm.

SPEAKER_02:

So uh, yes, thank you all of you joining us and listening. As you know, uh your questions are are very valuable because they give us topics and then give us things to explore, and they also tell us that you are in fact listening. It's a sort of feedback at the same time. Um we have received uh several subscriptions to the podcast on the podcast page, the the Buzz Sprout page, um, that we are almost uh able to be supported by the listeners, uh, you know, with at least with the administrative fees that come with hosting and and and the site. Um and uh of course the the equipment here um it's gonna take some time to to regain regain the the the um uh the investment that the investment that was made into it. But uh you know, if we're thinking in terms of a very practical monetary thing, because uh certainly the investment has been uh regained multitude, multifold on the account that people are listening, uh they're enjoying, they're hopefully learning, they're they're growing wiser, um hopefully they're growing confused at certain things. So, you know, it's one of my specialties learning problems. Confusing um yes um chaos creation and uh yeah. So uh thank you once again. I'm young and suninim here with I'm Dr.

SPEAKER_01:

Ruben Lambert. From my heart to yours. Subscribe and like, and if you like what you heard, please pass it on to a friend.

SPEAKER_02:

Take care of yourselves and each other until next time.

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Dr. Ruben Lambert

Co-host
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Ven. MyongAhn Sunim

Co-host